Bill Abner and Dan Stapleton arrive to help Rob sort out the long-delayed Dawn of War II: Retribution episode. Rob isn’t wild about the campaign for a few reasons, and eventually he starts to figure out why. Bill dislikes Chaos Marines wailing on electric guitars, and he thinks that’s indicative of the direction the 40K universe has gone. Everything goes brilliantly until the show ends and Dan asks, “Wait, was I supposed to be recording?” Then Rob executes him, inspiring everyone to greater feats of podcasting next week.
enjoyed the cast. I just wanted to note that in 5th edition Imperial Guard have become one of the power armies. I think an imperial guard finised 2nd at adepticon this year.
In this comment thread the 40k nerds come out of the woodwork.
“Bill dislikes Chaos Marines wailing on electric guitars, and he thinks that’s indicative of the direction the 40K universe has gone.”
The noise marines have been in the game, with guitars, since the 80s. If anything this universe has been toned down over the years. Just do an imagine search for “rogue trader models” and you’ll see the miniatures were far wackier back then than today (more’s the pity).
Great podcast as always Rob.
2nd the above post about noise marines, they’ve allways been in there and 40K has allways had an element of over-the-top-ness. You mentioned the squats, at the end they pretty much turned into biker gangs in space.
On the part about Tyranids retreating and it not seeming in character, there is actually precedent for that. (Disclaimer: I’ve never played tyranids as ‘my army’ and it’s been a bit since I played 40K so any Tyranid player feel free to correct me)
Basically only the larger the creatures, called synapse creatures are plugged directly into the Hive Mind, these are you big guys like the Tyranid Warriros, Zoanthropes, Hive Tyrants, etc. The smaller creatures, like all the different ‘gaunts, despite being engineered by the Hive Mind are still wild animals that need to be controlled. As long as they’re close to a synapse creature everything is fine and the hive mind dominates them, but as they get further away their base animal instincts take over and they start to act independantly. So if there’s no synapse creature nearby and they come under fire, they might start to run away (IIRC they might also go into a suicidal death frenzy), at least till they get closer to a synapse creature.
Regarding the barriers to entry into playing the tabletop games. First off I have to agree that cost is a big barrier for some people. I’m fortunate in that the army I picked for Warhammer Fantasy, Vampire Counts, has never been an underpowered army since I started so I’ve never fealt the need to switch armies and start a fresh to stay competative. I picked Vampires as I liked the lore and I liked the play style and I’ve just gradualy built up my army over several years, so if you’re willing to dedicate yourself to one army through thick and thin then cost can be slightly mitigated by being spread out over time.
On the second barrier, painting the models, I have to say as someone who absolutely despises painting that if you like the game enough then that isn’t a barrier. As long as you’ve made a little effort (most tournaments I’ve been to minimum painting requirements has been 3 colours in an appropriate scheme, that’s nothing at all) then you’re painting doesn’t have to be brilliant, it just has to be good enough for you. I’ve been playing GW games for over 15 years now and in my time my painting has vastly improved from the first model I painted that ended up with panda eyes, but it’s still no where near good enough to win any awards. But it’s acceptable and that’s good enough for me.
I pretty much see painting as a chore I have to do before I have fun, like how when I was back in school and when I got home my mum would say “Do your homework first then you can play your games”. To get through the painting I pretty much have to imiagine my mum over my shoulder going “Paint your models first, then you can play with them.” It’s a chore, but it’s worth it because I like the game that much.
Just echoing the others here that I believe the 40K universe has actually gotten significantly less wacky over time. I haven’t played the tabletop games in years, but I started playing in 1993 or so and accrued a lot of materials from the first three editions of the game.
Noise Marines have definitely been there pretty much from the beginning. The original version of 40K was a much more balls-to-the-wall, Heavy Metal-esque, outrageous universe. Even the Orks, who are still the wackiest of the lot, were much less vicious and much more goofy and insane. I thought it was interesting that the Squats were brought up as examples, because they are a prime example of how the universe has become more sober. They really were straight up biker dwarfs in space–their removal was entirely in line with 40K being toned down.
Hell, the original 40K rulebook makes reference to the now-erased race of Zoats eating “Zoatabix,” a pun on the cereal Weetabix.
All that said, 40K (at least on the tabletop side) has in my opinion become a less consistent universe in one sense, which is that it has shed much of its former nuttiness in favor of a wider range of races. The core factions (Imperium, Orks, Eldar, Tyranids, Chaos) seem to be more consistent with themselves at this point, but there are also other races like the Tau and Necrons that to me don’t fit the tone of the universe at all.
For the Emperorrrr! When DOWII came out, I was really hoping they had stuck to the Dark Crusade/Soulstorm campaign map mechanic. I really loved the sort of Risk feel to it. There was a bit of story, but it was pretty much superfluous. The DOWII games seem to want more story and less of that experience from the first games (While still retaining the look), which I feel makes the campaign more linear and redundant. Honestly I only really enjoy Skirmish mode, but booooy do I enjoy it. No building barracks to block paths (Silliest strategy I’ve ever seen in my life, makes me want to choke puppies), no losing a fight because you weren’t micromanaging your 20+ SCV’s. Just plain old tactical combat. If you fight well in a skirmish map, you’ll have all the resources you need.
Great show guys! Drive Rob closer, he wants to hit them with his sword.
I’m fairly certain the core guys behind homeworld left Relic to form Kerberos, the guys behind Sword of the Stars… So I don’t think Homeworld 3 will ever be released.