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Three Moves Ahead Episode 138 – Your Lying Eyes

October 15th, 2011 by Rob Zacny · 9 Comments · Podcast, Three Moves Ahead


The Escapist’s Greg Tito joins Rob and Troy to talk about A Game of Thrones: Genesis and to tell us about the Escapist’s epic Napoleon in Europe match. In the first half of they show they talk about how AGOT’s deception and diplomacy mechanics succeed in channeling aspects of Martin’s novels, and in the second half they get into the ways that Napoleon in Europe models the cycles of war, peace, and negotiation that marked Napoleonic Europe. Troy then tells Greg that the Escapist should be a wargame site. Then he explains why you should give 3MA money.

Rob’s AGOT review
Greg AGOT review
Troy’s AGOT impressions
BGG’s Napoleon in Europe page

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9 Comments so far ↓

  • skshrews

    The Napoleon in Europe discussion was great, and of course, begs the question “why hasn’t this been made into a computer game?”

    An interesting element of game development is related on Board Game Geeks on how developers of “Glory To Rome” are using Kickstart to develop games. Maybe the basis of a Three Moves Ahead show?

  • Frash

    “Here I stand” would be my vote for the next office game. I love the way each faction has unique victory conditions, and the wau they are integrated into the twin layers of political and religious conflict.

    It is sad to hear that the game of thrones was a missed opportunity but it got me to thinking about knights of honor. Knights had a cool little espionage system as well and it sounds like they had already done better then GOT did.

  • Jon Shafer

    Great episode guys. The split format is different, but I like it. :)

    Shame GoT isn’t all it could be. The most disappointing games are those with a nugget of gold that you can’t quite get to. I wonder how well it’ll sell though, as it appears to be getting a decent amount of attention given the lack of marketing. Perhaps there’s hope for a sequel that will fix some of the mistakes.

    Empires in Arms is another old Napoleonic board game that’s similar to Napoleon in Europe (sadly, also out of print). Playing an epic 1796 campaign in small teams was probably the most fun I’ve ever had gaming.


  • Edward Damon

    @Frash: I’ve been trying to get the folks in my office/board game circle together for Here I Stand, but there’s a lot of reluctance, as it looks long and full of fiddly bits (one of the reasons why I’m so keen on it, in addition to the theme/setting). Is the payoff worth it?

  • Frash

    @Edward: I haven’t used my box copy of Here I Stand in play yetg. The games I have participated in have been through wargameroom’s jave client. As far as the physical copy’s fiddlyness I think there is only a moderate amount, compared of course to similar in depth strategy games. You will want a decently sized table but the layout is pretty straightforward once you have the rules down. The main problem is the length of the game and tying up the table real estate for the 6 hours or so. If you have to play over multiple days as would be the case with an office group you would need a safe space to store it. My suggested alternative would be to learn to use wargameroom’s version as it can save and load easily. Do have a grasp of the boardgame’s rules as the wargameroom version does not teach them.

  • Ginger Yellow

    I’ve had such a rollercoaster emotional ride with Games of Thrones. At first, I expected nothing at all of it. Then the early impressions came through on QT3 with all this discussion of betrayal and deception, and I got all excited. Then people realised it didn’t hold up. Ah well.

    When you guys were talking about the build-up of aggression and tension before the irreversible move to war, I couldn’t help but think about Defcon, and the wonderful tension before the nukes start flying and the dynamic of having offensive silos be your main defensive arsenal as well. I realise they’re very different mechanics, but it sounds like the games have a similar trajectory.

  • Hell-Mikey

    I’ve only got a pair of games of Here I Stand under my belt, both in cardboard. I’d suspect an office game might struggle a touch because the multiple systems resolve in *almost* the same way in each system. Both of our games were characterized by a lot of rule/modifier hunting. As we got later in the game, the hunt time dropped, but with the periodic interruptions expected in an office game, you may never achieve the muscle memory of all the modifiers. Or, perhaps you have an eidetic memory, and this is of no concern.

  • Frash

    @Ginger: Before I thought of knights of honor, defcon was the first game to come to mind. Depending on who you’re playing with that buildup.is vital for securing alliances and probing your opponents for weaknesses before those silos go active. Figuring out where to orbit your bombers, timing the strikes, and worrying about fuel forces alot of interesting decisions in deceptively simple shell.

  • Peter S

    I’d actually love to see a Dune RTS built on the mechanics described in this podcast — just replace envoys and ladies with Mentats, Bene Gesserit, etc. It would be a much better fit for the Dune licence than any of the Westwood games!