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	<title>Comments on: Dune II and Genre Birth Pangs</title>
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	<link>http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/</link>
	<description>The Best Strategy Game Blog in My House</description>
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		<title>By: Tim McDonald</title>
		<link>http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/comment-page-1/#comment-191337</link>
		<dc:creator>Tim McDonald</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 17:19:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/#comment-191337</guid>
		<description>Dune II has a warm place in my heart not only for the gameplay (which was fairly revolutionary to me at the time, regardless of any Herzog Zwei comment people might make) but because it was the first thing I played after we got a sound card. Initially I thought that was pointless purchase; why not get a game instead? Who cares about the sound? But that won me over completely. The first moment of speech coming out of the card, the music, the explosions... Happy days.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Dune II has a warm place in my heart not only for the gameplay (which was fairly revolutionary to me at the time, regardless of any Herzog Zwei comment people might make) but because it was the first thing I played after we got a sound card. Initially I thought that was pointless purchase; why not get a game instead? Who cares about the sound? But that won me over completely. The first moment of speech coming out of the card, the music, the explosions&#8230; Happy days.</p>
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		<title>By: Michael A.</title>
		<link>http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/comment-page-1/#comment-191231</link>
		<dc:creator>Michael A.</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 13 Dec 2008 00:47:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/#comment-191231</guid>
		<description>Worm Sign!!

Dune II was certainly a landmark game, and simply sheer good fun. I also have a soft spot for the unique strategy / adventure blend of the original Dune ... a unique (and IMO enjoyable) game. A pity that this direction has never really been explored further.

Speaking of Dune, I am surprised no one in your previous list with game music mentioned the Dune: Spice Opera - definitely one of the more memorable game tracks for my money.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Worm Sign!!</p>
<p>Dune II was certainly a landmark game, and simply sheer good fun. I also have a soft spot for the unique strategy / adventure blend of the original Dune &#8230; a unique (and IMO enjoyable) game. A pity that this direction has never really been explored further.</p>
<p>Speaking of Dune, I am surprised no one in your previous list with game music mentioned the Dune: Spice Opera &#8211; definitely one of the more memorable game tracks for my money.</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Au</title>
		<link>http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/comment-page-1/#comment-191212</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Au</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 20:49:18 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/#comment-191212</guid>
		<description>I believe the &quot;strategy&quot; back then was a combination of turret-crawling (constructing a line of walls and turrets into the enemy base), infantry rushing (to capture and sell the enemy construction yard), and tank rushing (massed tanks).  As for &lt;i&gt;Dune&lt;/i&gt; RTS games, I was never really very excited about &lt;i&gt;Emperor: Battle for Dune&lt;/i&gt; and it&#039;s wacky over-the-top stylized units (like mechs), but that&#039;s because I didn&#039;t think it was appropriate for the &lt;i&gt;Dune&lt;/i&gt; setting.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I believe the &#8220;strategy&#8221; back then was a combination of turret-crawling (constructing a line of walls and turrets into the enemy base), infantry rushing (to capture and sell the enemy construction yard), and tank rushing (massed tanks).  As for <i>Dune</i> RTS games, I was never really very excited about <i>Emperor: Battle for Dune</i> and it&#8217;s wacky over-the-top stylized units (like mechs), but that&#8217;s because I didn&#8217;t think it was appropriate for the <i>Dune</i> setting.</p>
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		<title>By: andrei.dumitrescu</title>
		<link>http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/comment-page-1/#comment-191161</link>
		<dc:creator>andrei.dumitrescu</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 12 Dec 2008 11:23:31 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/#comment-191161</guid>
		<description>Making turrets by surrounding rocket troopers (which were exclusive to the Harkonnens?) with wall was what I thought to be high strategy at the time... I very much loved the game and I think the Dune universe could be used to create new and innovative RTSes...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Making turrets by surrounding rocket troopers (which were exclusive to the Harkonnens?) with wall was what I thought to be high strategy at the time&#8230; I very much loved the game and I think the Dune universe could be used to create new and innovative RTSes&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Alan Au</title>
		<link>http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/comment-page-1/#comment-191074</link>
		<dc:creator>Alan Au</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 20:31:42 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/#comment-191074</guid>
		<description>Ah yes, good old &lt;i&gt;Dune II&lt;/i&gt;.  I remember playing it for the first time and wishing it had multiplayer.  That and wondering what had happened to &lt;i&gt;Dune I&lt;/i&gt; (which as it turned out, was a strategy-adventure game).  By the way,  I recommend &lt;i&gt;Dune 2000&lt;/i&gt;, which is strangely much closer to my (nostalgia-inflated) memory of playing &lt;i&gt;Dune II&lt;/i&gt; than the game itself.

As for RTS, I remember playing an even older RTS game, although I&#039;m not even sure it could properly be called RTS at that point.  It was a simultaneous-move strategy game designed to be played over a direction connection, except that it had flaky network code and would desync a lot.

This makes me wonder what new genres will come along in the future, and whether we&#039;re already playing those games but simply don&#039;t realize how influential they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ah yes, good old <i>Dune II</i>.  I remember playing it for the first time and wishing it had multiplayer.  That and wondering what had happened to <i>Dune I</i> (which as it turned out, was a strategy-adventure game).  By the way,  I recommend <i>Dune 2000</i>, which is strangely much closer to my (nostalgia-inflated) memory of playing <i>Dune II</i> than the game itself.</p>
<p>As for RTS, I remember playing an even older RTS game, although I&#8217;m not even sure it could properly be called RTS at that point.  It was a simultaneous-move strategy game designed to be played over a direction connection, except that it had flaky network code and would desync a lot.</p>
<p>This makes me wonder what new genres will come along in the future, and whether we&#8217;re already playing those games but simply don&#8217;t realize how influential they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Troy</title>
		<link>http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/comment-page-1/#comment-191063</link>
		<dc:creator>Troy</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Dec 2008 18:31:20 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://flashofsteel.com/index.php/2008/12/11/dune-ii-and-genre-birth-pangs/#comment-191063</guid>
		<description>It&#039;s not that there weren&#039;t genres - there certainly were as any look at a magazine or, as you say, newsgroup, would show. Early CGW magazines divided things into two broad categories and, since board and paper games had genres it was no great stretch to move those terms to the electronic world.

But I think the genre was not the foremost thing in developers&#039; or gamers&#039; minds. You can see this in the career of Sid Meier in that period - flight sims, Pirates, Civilization. There was, I think, more experimentation in broader form where now most experimentation is done on the margins with a few noticeable exceptions. That is, in large part, because the industry is more mature now and has a better idea of what works and what doesn&#039;t.

In the Edge article, the Dune developers say that they wanted a more modern wargame. But it&#039;s nearly impossible to look at Dune and see much in the way of wargame conventions; they didn&#039;t bind themselves to what genres were supposed to look like. They took the general idea of a wargame (kill things) and made it larger.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>It&#8217;s not that there weren&#8217;t genres &#8211; there certainly were as any look at a magazine or, as you say, newsgroup, would show. Early CGW magazines divided things into two broad categories and, since board and paper games had genres it was no great stretch to move those terms to the electronic world.</p>
<p>But I think the genre was not the foremost thing in developers&#8217; or gamers&#8217; minds. You can see this in the career of Sid Meier in that period &#8211; flight sims, Pirates, Civilization. There was, I think, more experimentation in broader form where now most experimentation is done on the margins with a few noticeable exceptions. That is, in large part, because the industry is more mature now and has a better idea of what works and what doesn&#8217;t.</p>
<p>In the Edge article, the Dune developers say that they wanted a more modern wargame. But it&#8217;s nearly impossible to look at Dune and see much in the way of wargame conventions; they didn&#8217;t bind themselves to what genres were supposed to look like. They took the general idea of a wargame (kill things) and made it larger.</p>
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